ep. 18 - rELEASE EXTERNAL VALIDATION WITH LEIGH CUEN
Leigh Cuen is the co-founder of the Association of Cryptocurrency Journalists and Researchers (ACJR) and Des Femmes a female-led community magazine creating media and networking experiences for women who are thriving at the intersection of tech and finance. She shares her journey from working as an international correspondent and staff journalist to her entrepreneurial ventures in creating content accounting for the actions and reactions of a globally-conscious audience. To date, Leigh’s work has been featured across major publications, including TechCrunch, Vice, Business Insider, and Teen Vogue. In this episode, Leigh and Lisa delve into everything from analyzing the superpower of “thinking outside the box”, to the process of putting a print magazine in Whole Foods and Barnes & Noble, and creating sustainable programs that truly put community first.
Lisa and Leigh discuss:
How to release comfort and external validation to define and attain success
Sacrifice vs. skill sets: How women’s roles and value are defined within the crypto industry and society as a whole
Being aware of personal boundaries and priorities and how to surround yourself with people who respect them
The norm of masculine energy in business building and how women can best honor their natural rhythm in navigating life and business
The thought process and actions involved in overhauling a business model
FULL TRANSCRIPT
Lisa Carmen Wang 0:06
A bad bitch takes charge of her body, her boundaries and her bank account. Welcome back to the BAD BITCH EMPIRE. This is Lisa Carmen Wang and today I'm here with Leigh Cuen. She's the co-founder of de femme, a community magazine for women who are thriving at the intersection of tech and finance. You can find the magazine at Whole Foods and Barnes and Nobles across the country. She's also the co-founder of the Association of Cryptocurrencies Journalists and Researchers. Her journalism work has been published by TechCrunch, Vice Playboy Business Insider, Newsweek, Teen Vogue, Al Jazeera English, the LA Times, and many others. Today, Lee and I are going to be talking about releasing external validation, owning your superpowers, learning how to surround yourself with a team who values you for your skills, as opposed to your sacrifice, and how to bring those skills and embrace change as you move through your career and life. Lee, welcome to the bad bitch empire.
Leigh Cuen 1:15
Thank you so much for having me. Glad to be here.
Lisa Carmen Wang 1:17
So let's get started and talk about your background. How did you break free of good girl brainwashing? What were some of the powerful inflection points in your life as you started evolving into the bad bits you are today?
Leigh Cuen 1:32
The big question of I'll start by trying I guess, to talk about good girl brainwashing that you mentioned, I think, especially as women, we're raised to believe our value is defined by how we serve other people, and how we make other people happy. And especially as women who work in the Bitcoin space, there can be a lot of pressure and contradictions when it comes to how we're paid or compensated or valued compared to how male developers are paid and valued. So for me, I had to come to the understanding that I need to find people that value me for my skills and for my accomplishments, and for what I bring to the table. And not only what I can sacrifice for the benefit of the community. And even to define for myself, what does community mean? And what kind of value am I getting from my interactions from these different people, and you're talking about inflection points. I think that for me, as I started in my journalism career, writing more and more research that was original, and had significant impacts on people's lives, it often meant that it was more controversial, and I'd get a lot of criticism. And when I was working on staff, as a reporter, I could go to my editors to validate me that the work was high quality. When I went independent and became an independent publisher and consultant, I didn't have that external form of validation that the work was high quality. And so I had to come to grips with it for myself that I needed to find success for myself. And I need to surround myself with people that I trust and value their opinions, so that I can use that to measure whether or not I'm meeting my goals and creating value. And if anyone else is putting judgment or fear or stereotypes I'm supposed to be feeling at my door, those judgments belong to them. They don't belong to me. And I need to define value and success in my own work for myself.
Lisa Carmen Wang 3:22
Let's get specific about the work working in the cryptocurrency industry, right? You said that a lot of times people were valuing you for your sacrifice, as opposed to your skills. So what are some of the skills that you feel are valued and are not valued enough in the industry?
Leigh Cuen 3:40
Well, that value is always going to be subjective. And it's always going to be a matter of like, who's willing to pay for it, whether they're paying for it with money, or they're paying for it with time or resources or access. And I think that a lot of the work that women do are associated with soft skills, things like setting up meetings, taking the documentation. So those meetings are effective and successful, creating introductions, making a friendly environment for new people education. And sometimes those are associated in the cryptocurrency space with strictly volunteer roles and roles that we shouldn't be obligated to do in service of the great acid given to us by the Godfather, Satoshi. And if we're not looking at this from a religious perspective, but from the perspective of great respect for a financial tool that we use, then that kind of breaks down and you start to realize that there's a ton of value and being able to find people that are good at certain thing, connect them together, and then usher them through an experience to create value together. Coordinating people and getting people to align in their motives is hugely important and valuable. And so I think a lot of the soft skills that are often devalued also writing and content creation. There's a lot of derogatory language discussing women as influencers as opposed to educators and creators and entrepreneurs. So I think it comes to for ourselves show seeing the value that we create with these quote unquote, soft skills, and refusing to allow them to be diminished in any way. And instead taking ownership of that value, and the people who are willing to exchange with you access or money or recognition are can have access to that value, and the people who do not are not entitled to it.
Lisa Carmen Wang 5:23
I think that this is really important to address because within our culture today, where it's all about community, right, and it's all about women giving and giving and giving, and within community, you know, it's a kumbaya kind of thing. So as you're talking about, like making introductions as something that's really valuable, that should be something that receives compensation, but at the same time, there is that kind of double edge where, because there's an expectation already almost in the culture, that it should be free, like, oh, you should just be generous, and share your connections. How do you think about that balance of giving, and being generous, but ultimately saying like, and I guess, not making it seem like you're being a bitch, where it's like, what you're not going to, you're not going to share at all. And saying, like, you know, there's actually needs to be a transaction fee here.
Leigh Cuen 6:15
I think that part of it is being comfortable with the fact that some people, no matter how much you give, you could give from the time you wake up in the morning, to the time you go to sleep, someone's gonna think you're a bitch for not prioritizing them. So you have to be comfortable with being a bad bitch. And that doesn't mean you go out of your way to exclude anyone. And that doesn't mean you go out of your way to cause harm to anyone. But it also means that you don't devalue yourself, you can't pour from an empty cup. So how do you establish relationships and dynamics that refill your cup, so that you can give more to the people you love. And when you were saying that it really brought for me to mind the sexist concepts around motherhood and the fact that the emotional labor in the house is her duty and her pleasure to provide and that that labor is not worthy of metric value. And so I think that that's actually an extension of this, that now we're seeing is the mothers of the community, the daughters of the community, and that we should be pushing back against that and seeing ourselves as the matriarchs as the leaders of this community. And a matriarch determines how her value is allocated. And that value includes both time and assets. Yeah,
Lisa Carmen Wang 7:23
I really liked that kind of repositioning of it. So when you think about the types of people that you have chosen to surround yourself with, let's talk about the professional aspect of it, right, whether it's clients you're working with, whether it's the team that you're hiring, how do you evaluate who is someone that you do want in your circle?
Leigh Cuen 7:46
That's an ongoing process, and definitely refines itself with time. But I think the underlying principle is when people show you who they are, believe them. And when people show you that they respect you, and they admire you. And that can be something as simple as acknowledging like, thanks so much for taking notes during that meeting today, you're not my secretary, that's not required of you. Or it can be something as simple as asking, When can we reschedule this in your timezone? Because I had to move a meeting, people that just consistently are showing that they value your time and your contribution. And taking note of that, and then reciprocating as well, you had mentioned, not wanting to have people think you're a bitch, and you don't have to go out of your way to harm anyone, but you also can perceive the energy that's being directed towards you, and prioritize people who make you a priority.
Lisa Carmen Wang 8:35
I think that's really important. I mean, ultimately, it's, we don't have unlimited amounts of time, we don't have unlimited amounts of energy. And I think it is like this, it is a constant poll, I think, especially if you work in a role where you are doing it, because you want to provide value to the community. And I have found it sometimes it's like, personally difficult for me when I when I feel that I'm not able to serve someone because for example, they can't afford something and then I feel bad. And it's an it comes from a good place. Because it's like, Oh, fun, I want to help. And I think it's always like, that's the importance of boundaries, right? It's like, to your point, you have to fill your cup first. And if you I think for a lot of women, that's actually just really hard to do.
Leigh Cuen 9:28
And I mean, there's also so much judgment that comes from that I think women are described as greedy or opportunistic much more often than men who have already the things that these women are working so hard to acquire, which is often well, and if not, well, that can be independence control over their time. I think it's just really important to have people around you that you can trust to criticize you trust to point out your weaknesses. It's not that you are an island with no external validation, but that you're choosing your sources of and input. And when other people put judgment at your door, you don't necessarily have to open it.
Lisa Carmen Wang 10:06
Exactly. So I want to touch upon the different transitions you've had in your career. So we initially met, when you came in to work with me as a coach, which was really exciting to see that transition moment of you launching the firm. So give us a little overview about your professional journey, and just where you came from and where you are today.
Leigh Cuen 10:30
Going way back, I graduated from the University of San Francisco, and I got my first job at a paper newspaper, like laying it out every week in paper, kind of old school that had been around for 100 years. And I worked there for roughly a year before I moved to Middle East and I worked for almost five years as an international correspondent and freelance journalist in the Middle East, mostly around Jerusalem. I moved back to the US in New York, where I started focusing more heavily on gender issues, and also technology. And that's around when you met me is when I was leaving New York and trying to figure out what comes next, I was absolutely insane in that I left a well paid staff journalism job, those are so rare. And I had a lot of security, but I wasn't able to accomplish some of the goals that I had for myself. And so you met me really at an inflection point. And I think the thing that I see over and over again, when it comes to whether I'm moving to the Middle East, moving back to the Middle East, to the US, and then leaving New York, it's always a time of not knowing necessarily what comes next, and having to rebuild your local contacts, or re decide for yourself, what does success mean in this new context? What are the resources available in this new context, and kind of having to adapt? I think, for me, inflection points have always come from adaptability, and being able to see opportunities that I wasn't able to predict before I arrived.
Lisa Carmen Wang 11:55
So why exactly did you leave that job? And what were you seeking that you didn't have at that time.
Leigh Cuen 12:02
So I was very lucky, I had great sources. I had interesting topics, I had a lot of freedom for writing. But I wanted to work more directly with other women like me, and there were not very many of us at all. I am very grateful for the work that I do in the Bitcoin space, nine times out of 10. In those projects and jobs, I have all male bosses, and mostly male colleagues. And I love working with men, men are great. But I just wanted to meet more women like me. So I left and started to FEM as like a community crowdfunding project, we created two print magazines with the latest one out now in stores, to kind of give us a point to revolve around, it was very easy to see a beginning, middle and end to those projects. And those magazines tell the stories of all the women that we're meeting and inspired by the projects that we're working on roughly like 800 women contributed to the community or participated in some way over the past two years. So that's been really incredible. And trying to see what that will evolve into is the great adventure coming up for us next after the launch of the second magazine. But none of that would have been possible in a day job in which my priorities were news. And news means what will people click in this industry? And I think there's a lot of value in providing content that advertisers like. But I wanted to remove that for even just a small amount of time and think about what I would create and participate in if advertisers weren't the primary goal behind the project. And what did you discover ways that are very similar to journalism, readers will tell you that they want investigative deep dives. But what though click and stay on more often are gossipy stories, actions, clear up what words confused? And so I discovered that I can do really incredible work and work with people around the world who I admire and respect women who are also interested in and fintech. But that the most important thing for me to do is to manage expectations by being clear about which actions trigger which reactions. So if that means you're you're working with a client, what are the metrics abscissa success for that project? So that in this way, you're not confused by what people say like, oh, we believe in diversity. You know, we want more women in the space, but what are they what are their actions showing their actions may show that they do or don't value it, depending on what they put into that project. So it really cleared up for me that it's not just a news and reader dynamic. It's like a planet dynamic. And that if you really do care about empowering women, then you need to be attentive to the companies and people that are putting their money where their mouth is.
Lisa Carmen Wang 14:39
Tell us about the transition then from that job into launching your first entrepreneurial venture.
Leigh Cuen 14:47
So I was actually juggling two at the same time. So that was interesting for contrast, the Association of cryptocurrency, journalists and researchers, which is a nonprofit. I'm one of 10 co founders, and then defend which I was one of two co founders. with Camila Russo, who was the founder of the defiant a VC backed media company, and became very clear to us from the beginning, that we didn't want this to become another VC backed media company. We saw what the Define had built in. It's wonderful and amazing, it was just very different in terms of its goals, and writing and editing, I was familiar with project management, from my international experience where I would craft land in a country need to figure out photographer or translator, get that story sold to a publication, I was used to project management. But I had no idea how to get into retail stores, I had no idea how to do print and distribution on a massive scale. So that transition, a lot of times looked like, Okay, if we want to have X be the result, what needs to happen first, and if it was something like I, we need a distributor, I would go and I would try and figure out who are the distributors working with 10 magazines that I respected, and cold call them until one answered me. And until we found a distributor for the magazine that was coming, and rinse and repeat for you know, printer, rinse and repeat for designer like anything that I didn't know how to do, I looked for people that were already doing it, and figured out how they did it, and then contacted the resources or providers that they were working with, to see if they would work with me too.
Lisa Carmen Wang 16:15
So just a step by step process asking yourself, what do I not understand what do I not know how to do and then just figuring it out.
Leigh Cuen 16:22
And that's itself a superpower, a lot of people can't think outside the box. And being able to think outside the box to accomplish things is completely undervalued. And I think that women oftentimes don't give themselves enough credit for the ability to improvise.
Lisa Carmen Wang 16:38
Yeah, I that's actually a really good thing to point out. I mean, I think about everything that I've learned since I've started my entrepreneurial journey almost a decade ago. And it's, it's almost like every single hat that I could possibly wear, I've worn. And even, I mean, building a website, right, I have friends who are developers, and I was like, my website looks and functions better than any website, you could design, you know, at least from a basic level, because most websites, if you're not a deep tech platform that requires a lot of back end, it's like you don't need to learn how to code, you just need to, like, understand the user experience that you want your customer to go through as they're flowing through your website. So I think a lot of it is just about Yeah, empathy and improvisation and listening. And then iterating, based off of the feedback that you get from the people that you're trying to serve. And so with the building of the magazine, so you said you didn't want it to become a venture backed media company. What was it that you were envisioning from the beginning,
Leigh Cuen 17:44
I think we wanted to explore a Dao experiment, and I say the word experiment, quite heavily in emphasis there. Because what is a doll people use that term to mean so many different things. And what we mean by that is a community that manages and allocates funds together. I think, in the tech world, there's a lot of glorification of unicorn companies and unicorn founders. And that not every business venture is best suited to venture scale in the first couple of years, it may eventually lead to a product or service that has a venture potential. But I think that if you right away, try and say this is something that's going to scale to 1000s of employees, and millions of customers, you're inherently shaping the product for mass production, rather than trying to find people that are not being served and what exactly is needed to serve them. And then if you actually identify a real need, there are literally millions of people with that same need. So going from there, going from really having something that served the builders. And for us as the builders, we wanted to find other women who are interested in FinTech and growing our careers in that way. So that was the the need that we were trying to fill and going through all these experiments of creating different kinds of content and events, and even programs and experiences like the mentorship program helped identify for us what parts of those can be scaled, and what parts of those are more fun passion projects.
Lisa Carmen Wang 19:18
I think that that's super accurate. Because even from my experience, it's the wrong approach. I think especially I'll just say, especially for women who, in general, I would say care more like actually care about creating positive impact for their customers. That going the typically like masculine, like founder path that's like napkin idea, raise a shit ton of money and then like and then figure it out, and then like, make a bunch of mistakes, that it just doesn't work. And I remember thinking through that as well, it's like, at some point, it may make sense to raise venture capital money, but the thing that they Don't talk about is that the moment you take venture capital money, you are actually putting yourself in a box, you are being forced into a certain growth trajectory, you don't have the same creative control or freedom that you had to experiment and really test out different things that resonate not only with your customers, but also with your soul, as a founder. And it like I think the moment we let those other voices in, when we haven't even had time for ideas or own voices to mature, it's like, you'll you're setting yourself up for disaster and, and I think about some of these companies that have just, like rapid growth. And they just, it was because they're just riding this wave of, like, more VC money, more VC money, and a lot of times it just crashes and burns.
Leigh Cuen 20:46
Yeah, I think that everything in life, even all of us die, right? Like everything in life has a beginning, a middle and an end. And so thank you from the beginning that I want an end that I feel really great about and really positive about meant that I had to be more comfortable with a slower start. And that's something that I just prioritized from the beginning of wanting to make sure that the legacy of the design community that we build is something that for the vast majority of people that are participating is positive and uplifting, as opposed to someone that no raise hundreds of million dollars in venture capital and then produce nothing of value for it. The ending of that is a little bit underwhelming compared to the Start we'd much rather have. And surprisingly, overwhelming. Overwhelming is not a word. But a positive surprise throughout that journey, as opposed to setting expectations that we're not sure ourselves we could meet.
Lisa Carmen Wang 21:38
Yeah. And I think a lot of times is also the reframing because the first thing that people ask you, the moment you are raising money is oh, how much are you raising? Like, how big is the round? Which just feels like when you step back? It's everything is a dick measuring contest, right? And you're like, Well, ideally, maybe this much However, right now there's zero. It's always like and I as we started, when we launched the bad bitch Empire fun people were like, how big is the fun? I was like, I mean, in though you should do 50 mil, you should do 100 mil like all these guys, I'm like, fine, but like, don't tell me that if unless you're gonna put in five mil, like, don't just tell me how big the dick should be. You know. And it's like, I think it's always that focus on like, the outcome and just how big, how large, how fast? And I think one question that we don't often ask and something that I've been exploring more is like, how do I want to live? And how do I want to work, like, in my day to day, because one thing that I haven't felt is in a long time, which caused me to pause was, I don't feel spaciousness and ease. And, and like, I don't know how, but like within spaciousness, and ease is a certain kind of pleasure and like deep thinking that you do not get when you are chasing, like some the carrot and stick, right. And you're chasing validation. And so I have been also rethinking through, like, what does it actually mean to create a day for yourself with a sustainable working environment or sustainable working rhythm for myself. And I think also just with for my body, because the other thing that I do think is that the the work the way our work day and work week is created, is not in tune with the way women's bodies alike are meant to function and meant to find time for rest and ease.
Leigh Cuen 23:42
Yeah, I love you pointing that out. In terms of the biology, we're all meat machines. And we can only operate as well as our machines are being taken care of and maintenance. And I think especially like you're talking about the the cycles of women's bodies, I think that what you can achieve in bursts when you have that energy, and you have all the fuel that you need. And you have that time for rest, which comes with creativity and solutions and insight. Making that not only like a weekly part of your life, in terms of weekends is usually when we rest, but also a monthly part of your life. Like there's a time when your body is telling you slow down and reflect. And there's a time when your body's telling you to like wrap things up and look for loosens and there's a time when your body's telling you like I am the hardest thing ever. I love meeting people. I want to go 100 miles an hour and trying to really listen to yourself and create like a sustainable long term workflow really resonates with me when you were talking about listening to the body. Yeah,
Lisa Carmen Wang 24:43
yeah. And I think not being too hard on ourselves when we don't feel like 100% and like beautiful and sexy and strong and out there. And it's like actually, like just thinking about our cycles, like our actual menstrual cycles like there is a time You know, when we're meant to retreat, there is a time when when meant to be out there. And so when we don't feel like being out there, we don't feel like being social and like giving it our all that that's not actually something to be ashamed of.
Leigh Cuen 25:12
Yeah, I mean, nothing can burn it 100% For forever. So you're much better at figuring out what rhythms work for you. And of course, things will come up, you know, when you're not in the mood, and you still have to handle it. That's fine. But I think not creating that as the norm as you have to be at 100% all the time, because then you'll just, you're guaranteed to fail.
Lisa Carmen Wang 25:30
Yeah, so I mean, you chose a space within crypto, right, which doesn't have a off time at all. And as we've seen, even recently, you know, obviously very volatile, how do you, you know, stay on top of the news cycle? And, like, honor your own rhythm at the same time?
Leigh Cuen 25:52
Yeah, that's a great question. I think a lot of it comes back to some of the topics we were already discussing in terms of selecting who is around you. I can say this, as a journalist who's someone who I made all kinds of different content for years, you don't need to know everything. And you don't need to be up to date on everything for everybody. So the best way to, I guess, manage your intake and being on as when needed in this industry, is figuring out what products services assets. People even are relevant to your success and the in the short term that you need to stay up to date to and what about in the long term. So you need to stay up to date, quarterly, maybe twice a year, as opposed to all the time, and then just figuring out what is you need to intake as an information. And anything else can be for pleasure reading, if you're scrolling on the weekend, but it's not necessary. And just because it's new information, doesn't mean it's emergency information, like does this new information relate to my priorities for right now? And if not, it's a distraction.
Lisa Carmen Wang 26:56
So how do you define success? Now,
Leigh Cuen 26:59
I think, in a lot of ways, leaning on my Angelou is very famous definition of success, which is liking what I do and liking who I do it with. That's not always going to be 110%. And things will shift. But I think if at the end, I'm proud of the outcome, and I'm proud of the people who are involved with it. That's success.
Lisa Carmen Wang 27:21
Awesome. And so do you feel like you have achieved the success that you've wanted to date? Yes,
Leigh Cuen 27:26
although not even remotely in the ways that I thought it would be achieved. And when it is achieved, like anything that comes with all these responsibilities or challenges that I couldn't have foreseen before I had achieved those things. So it's not as if you reach a happily ever after plateau, in which there's nothing interesting going on. To the contrary, every time you have an achievement, it just like getting onto another ledge of a mountain. And you realize that there's a another way up. So I am very proud and feel lucky that I've been able to achieve what I had set out to several years ago, now, almost two, but that doesn't mean that I'm done. And that just keep coasting to the contrary, it's given me new information about things I want to define as goals for myself going forward.
Lisa Carmen Wang 28:11
So when you think about what you set out to achieve with DFM and launching the magazine, where is the next iteration of it? And where do you see it going?
Leigh Cuen 28:21
Yeah, that's the great million dollar question. I actually just had a meeting right before this call exploring that question. So still a lot of things that we're working out and considering. But the things we know for sure, are that the hundreds of women that we've gathered together to participate in content and programs, that network itself has value. And so that value is going to live on and contributing to other projects across the space and giving the people in that network, more access than they've had before the network existed, that's for sure. We've had 1000s of people interact with our content, we've had more than 100 people attend events, we've had more than 450 applicants to our last mentorship program out of which he graduated roughly 41. And if you consider how rigorous that program was focused on Bitcoin Core development, we were deeply impressed with that graduation number, and it had three times the amount of female participants as the previous sponsors programs. So it was pretty unprecedented in terms of any kind of Bitcoin education program out there today. And it's female participation, it still has room to grow until we're completely at 5050. But I think that the value that we set out to create which is having space and networks and opportunities for people like us, they now exist, and considering how to make those opportunities more sustainable, and also even more fruitful now that we have the roots established, or is what comes next for the project.
Lisa Carmen Wang 29:49
And how are you seeing the business model? You know, when you started it and how are you evolving the business model?
Leigh Cuen 29:55
Yeah, so we always came into the project with an idea of wanting to explore what I exit to community means people use that term. And usually it means launching some kind of token that people expect will increase in value like a stock or any other security. And we weren't interested in the idea of issuing a token in that way. So thinking about the business model, we definitely still have a sponsored program. So like the mentorship program was sponsored, and sponsored content and recruiting, sponsored consulting, things like that. But in terms of the exit to community, that's exactly the thing that we're exploring with the key stakeholders right now. And thinking about what we're going to announce early next year, because the the business model needs to be much more fluid and independent for people that are freelancers or have their own projects they're working on, as well, as opposed to trying to get everyone to abandon their passion projects or their individual careers in order to serve the corporate entity, which I think is a traditional VC model, get people to work crazy overtime hours, and the hope that their stock will go up.
Lisa Carmen Wang 31:00
So you're still thinking about what it is. So are you talking about membership education? Or, you know, how else are you thinking through it?
Leigh Cuen 31:08
Yeah, I think it's about empowering people that are already providing services like educational programs, or like membership membership involves like moderation, event planning, things like that. So the people who are providing those services, figuring out how to give them the most direct access to the funds from sponsors, as opposed to having the entity be the go between, and not only have the entity be the go between but the entity be the one that long term has more and more established value, while the individuals leave value on the table if they were to go to work for another company, trying to think about how it is that we can have those kinds of revenue models with even more power from the operators and decreasing the power of the company over time.
Lisa Carmen Wang 31:52
Got it. And so will you still be publishing a magazine? Or do you feel like this is the this is the year that you're going to be finishing it.
Leigh Cuen 31:59
So this magazine was our magnum opus, our grand finale, we feel that two years, two separate print magazines helped give us a central point to revolve around while we were figuring out content creation for this particular audience, and also figuring out contribution and things like bounty programs. But now that we have a little bit more of a clear vision about what it takes to create the kind of content and experiences we want to have, we don't think that the print magazine is the only way to do so. So that means that the print magazines are now collector's items, and we think that they have evergreen content that will continue to be valuable to people for years to come.
Lisa Carmen Wang 32:37
So now as you just think about yourself as a leader, what would you say are some of your superpowers or the value that you bring that you want to continue developing as you grow in this leadership role.
Leigh Cuen 32:50
So there's a phrase in Hebrew that I really like that I feel like all Americans should or learn a version of. It's Roche Godot and Roche Catan. This means big head and small head, a small head is like a sheep. And if you put a string in front of the Sheep can't move left or right, that's it, there's a blocker sheep cannot go around the string that's a small head, you can only think inside what is presented to you as an opportunity. Someone with a big head can look around, see a situation and improvise. And they can see opportunities that have not been described to them, but that are just there waiting to be grasped. I think that coming into a project where there was a lot of retail and distribution and management and bookkeeping aspects that I had never in any way attempted before. And being able to figure them out. My secret superpower is being both good old, being able to, like throw myself at a problem and tackle it, even if I don't have precedent for what that should look like. Like a print magazine usually has a paid stuff, and only a small paid stuff. The idea of getting hundreds of people to contribute to a traditional product when we started was absurd. And the editors and designers and printers we worked with continually were telling me how impressed they were and how surprised they were by the creative ways that we overcame problems of working with a decentralized community as opposed to a set stuff. So that's my superpower is being thinking outside the box and being able to grasp opportunities as they arrive. And in terms of how I hope to develop that I hope to listen to the other contributors to the different projects and hear from them what it is that they desire. And even if it's not something that we know what the set path for achieving that plowing forward and achieving that goal, there's nothing that's impossible. There's only things that we don't want to sacrifice for. And so deciding what is the value that is for us worth, the creative problem solving and then going headfirst at it is the goal for the next six months.
Lisa Carmen Wang 34:51
Yeah, that last point that you'd mentioned. Nothing is impossible. Just some things that you're not willing to sacrifice for. I actually think That's really important because I think it's actually very easy for people to say it's too hard. I don't know how to do that. It's not my fault, insert whatever excuse but deep down, they really want to let's talk about even leaving a job, right? Oh, it's too hard, people would be disappointed. They're gonna think I'm crazy. I can't give up the stability. I can't give up the salary. And it's like, no, you're just not willing to sacrifice that. Which then you need to ask yourself, How badly do you actually want that other thing. And if there's that gnawing feeling inside you that you do actually really want to pursue some vision or goal that you have in yourself, then you need to get out of your own way and be willing to sacrifice whatever it takes to get there. And and I think, yeah, it really comes down to like, what are you willing to give up in terms of comfort, to achieve something great, because nothing that is great, you know, gets there without the sacrifice
Leigh Cuen 36:05
100% comfortable, people don't change. So if you are not happy with where you're at, you're going to have to go through some kind of discomfort, which can mean growing, which can mean pushing yourself outside of your comfort zone, in order to get to where it is you want to be. If you're not already living the life you want to live, it's going to be an uncomfortable transition. And that can actually be the most thrilling and exhilarating part of it.
Lisa Carmen Wang 36:29
So if you could give yourself one piece of advice, your younger self, what would you tell her?
Leigh Cuen 36:35
I would tell her that there's never going to be a way to please everyone. So it's important to decide who you want to please and to make sure that you yourself are a priority on that list.
Lisa Carmen Wang 36:45
And last question for you. What does it mean to you to be a bad bitch,
Leigh Cuen 36:50
a bad bitch decides where her value goes, and that includes both her time and her assets. She manages her value herself independently, and doesn't do it for the pleasure of others. She does it for her own pleasure and growth and empowerment, which can include the people around her also thriving and succeeding, but a bad bitch has ownership over her own time and money
Lisa Carmen Wang 37:15
taking charge of your body boundaries and bank account. Well, thank you so much Lee for coming on to the bad witch empire.
Leigh Cuen 37:22
Thank you so much for having me.
Lisa Carmen Wang 37:24
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