ep. 19 - how to master a career pivot and reprogram a perfectionist mentality

Kendra Cole is the CEO and co-founder of Crypto Mom, a Black-owned and female-run app focused on helping diverse, millennial women and mothers to enter the crypto space and take financial charge. Kendra shares her journey to becoming a confident Bad Bitch, including how she pivoted in the economic downturn to switch careers and used the pandemic as an opportunity to dig deeper into crypto. In that learning process, she shares the realized gaps for women in the financial services space and how that led to creating an app to better serve women’s needs and financial plans. She even shares insights on how Crypto Mom development caters specifically to women, from taking into account women’s investment strategies to ‘thumb reach’.

Lisa and Kendra discuss: 

• How good girl brainwashing impacts the way women operate, advocate, and work with others

• Women’s obstacles to gaining financial knowledge and access to the financial services and crypto space

• The investment profile and preferences of women and mothers and how those were taken into account to develop a more inclusive app

• Building user adoption for a crypto app in launching and taking up market spaceThe “default setting” of society focusing on men’s needs

• Reprogramming the perfectionist mentality for ambitious women

FULL TRANSCRIPT

Lisa Carmen Wang 0:06

A bad bitch takes charge of her body, her boundaries and her bank account Welcome back bad bitches. Today I'm here with Kendra Cole, the co-founder and CEO of the crypto mom app, a Black-owned and women-run cryptocurrency investment platform created specifically for women and moms. Did you know that Bitcoin was initially built around encouraging financial equity but 75% of crypto holders are men? 60% of crypto investors are white men under the age of 45. And only 15% of Bitcoin traders are women, even though there are more than 10 point 2 million crypto-curious, first-time buying women. So today we are going to dive into the seemingly complex world of crypto, how to break it down so that more women, more diverse individuals can enter into the space and how we as bad bitches can really take charge of this new financial system. And I'm so excited to speak with Kendra about how she's doing that. So Kendra, welcome to the bad bitch empire.

Kendra Cole 1:18

Thank you for having me. I'm excited to be here.

Lisa Carmen Wang 1:21

All right, Kendra. So tell us about how you became the bad bitch you are today? How did you break free of good girl brainwashing? So take us back to you as a girl, and then how you got to where you are today and building the crypto mom app for sure.

Kendra Cole 1:37

I think that even as a kid, I was always sort of a loner. You know, I'm always very headstrong. I'm an Aries. So I have a fiery personality, I've always been that way. But even I think as a kid, you know, growing up you, we, our parents, you know whether they knew better or not, right? They teach you that girls need to be polite girls need to be nice, you got to, you know, you have to do all of those things. And so I feel internally, I've always really struggled with that of wanting to be more outspoken. But feeling like I needed to shrink myself or make myself smaller, I would say that the very first time that I really felt confident enough to really come into my own and take up my own space was when I made the decision to attend Howard University. I think just being on a campus of other amazing, intelligent, talented, thought-provoking black people just being in that environment was a huge confidence boost for me, and seeing other people who had similar experiences that I did in terms of growing up in predominantly white spaces and having to navigate that, knowing that there are other people that are out there that had that same experience really gave me a lot of confidence. And I think from there, it just sent me on a completely different trajectory. I think from there, I just really owned myself and really owned my who I want it to be. And then you know, for the last 13 years or so, I've been a communication strategist and publicist. And I've had the honor of working with so many other amazing women entrepreneurs, supporting their dreams and supporting the products that they are most passionate about. So through my career and my personal life, you know, I've really sharpened those tools of asking for, you know, forgiveness, instead of asking for permission, right or listening to my gut when something didn't pass the smell test.

Lisa Carmen Wang 3:34

Is there a specific incident that you can share, just growing up whether that was negative feedback that someone gave you or a specific failure or just something that really made you get to a point where you're like, Okay, I have to change and I have to be a bad bitch who's going to take charge in my life.

Kendra Cole 3:52

I think as a black person in America, almost every person remembers the first time that someone called them the N word. And for me, I was about five years old, I was about five or six years old, and it's really awful. But I remember the kids name, it was this kid Alex, who was in my daycare. And we were just playing with blocks, something like really innocuous. And I remember he took a block and smashed my finger. And I was really upset about it. And he said something to the extent of Oh, you're just a stupid N word. And it was the first time that I had heard that and someone had called me that and I told my mom, I remember telling my mom like, I don't understand, like, why he would say something like that. What did I do to you know, to deserve that? And I remember her talent getting like even a little choked up thinking about it, but I remember her telling me that you know, sometimes there are people who are just hateful in the world, and you just have to be better than them. And, you know, either ignore them or you move on. And while I do understand the sentiment of, you know, like Get like Michelle Obama says When they go low, we go high. I do understand that sentiment. At the same time, I think there's something to validating how you feel and validating that experience and saying that's No, okay. And before we decide to go, Hi, stepping up and standing up for yourself and saying, Hey, that is not okay. You are not allowed to talk to me that way. You are not allowed to call me that we're because I am not that. And I think that, as I've grown, that's been the one thing that I've always wanted to make sure that I did for myself, as well as what I teach my children is to stand up for yourself and take up space, and while you don't necessarily have to go low like them, you don't also have to excuse poor and bad behavior.

Lisa Carmen Wang 5:46

Yeah, I think that's so important. I talk about calling up bullshit, you know, calling it out for what it is because I do think, yeah, underneath that phrase, of when they go low, we go high is almost a bit of the brainwashing that's like, just, you know, say it's okay, and just rise above it, and ignore it. And, and I think that this is where this new paradigm needs to go where, especially as as women to be able to say, That's not okay. And be not afraid to be a bitch, you know, to be good. Because I think there's been so many times where people have said, like, Oh, don't take it. So seriously, why are you being so sensitive? And it's effectively gaslighting, right? And it's like, no, my feelings are valid, and the way that I am experiencing reality is valid. And so don't tell me not to be too sensitive. Don't tell me that it's okay. When it's not. Yep,

Kendra Cole 6:44

absolutely. And I get a lot of that also, even like, in my professional career, like, throughout my years working in like, agency, you know, I think that even working with other women, you know, a lot of times I think that women within professional environments are also Ted, you know, told to be nicer, right? Or take on the extra work that like cleaning the kitchen, or, you know, organizing the, you know, office events or things like that, I remember one time I actually had a boss who told me that my emails were too direct. And I said, Well, what do you mean by that? And she said, Well, you know, maybe just include some like niceties or maybe even include some emojis in your email. I said, Why do I need to include a smiley face when I'm requesting information? You know, so it's just even even even working with other women, like, you get that same sort of play nice. downplay your, what your requests are, make sure that your requests are not too strong, not too loud, not too, not too, whatever it is, right? You We can never be too much. We can never be too loud. We can never be too outspoken. We can never be too, whatever it is.

Lisa Carmen Wang 7:54

Yeah. And you're like, Well, I don't want to waste my time. I don't want to waste your time. Why are we doing this email? Yeah, I have a pretty direct email communication. It's like, well, it I think it's like, you. It's like when you text, right? Like, when you're texting someone you're not like, dear Alice, you're like, get to the point,

Kendra Cole 8:21

or the exclamation points, so many exclamation points. You know, you gotta let people know that you're always happy. You know, and, you know, maybe I'm not always happy. Maybe I'm just trying to get to the end of the task that's at hand. And that's okay. You know,

Lisa Carmen Wang 8:36

you know, tell us a bit about your career. And you know, what you did? How did you build up your skill set, and then ultimately take the leap into entrepreneurship?

Kendra Cole 8:48

Like I said, I think that when I graduated from college, you know, I had a couple of jobs here and there and really tried to find what I wanted to do. And, like I said, I think that I've always been very headstrong, and I've always been, you know, kind of when I set my mind to something, there is no changing it. So, one day, I remember I made my first job out of college, and I just, you know, I hated it. And I said, I don't know what I want to do next. And a girl that I was friends with. She said, Well, didn't you always do skincare in college and give your friends facials? And they said, Yeah, she said, Why don't you be an esthetician? And I said, Okay, I'm going to do that. And I like, got up. I searched a beauty school that was in LA at the time. And I call my parents I said, Hey, by the way, I'm quitting my job. I'm going to work in a spa for three months, and then I'm going to go to beauty school. And my parents were like, what, that is not the plan we had for you. But nonetheless, I did it. And actually, that was even the first time that I had made a major investment for myself where I took on my own loan, you know, and I said, this is what I'm going to do. And so I did that. I went to Beauty School. I was an esthetician for about a year and a half and at the time I It was when the economy had crashed. So I had my own clientele it was growing, and then the economy crashed. And any sort of like luxury goods, you know, access to things like that, that pretty much stopped. So I said, Well, what do I want to do next? And again, talking to another one of my friends. She said, You know, she was like, Well, you know, you always do like event planning and things like that. And, and you majored in communications and undergrad, she said, Why don't you look into PR? And I said, Okay, that's what I'm going to do. And so I googled it, and I kind of researched and I figured out, that's what I wanted to do. At the time, I was 24 years old, I took an unpaid internship at an agency in LA while I was working full time, and to get that experience. And then I got my first job in PR, with a firm called Connect PR. And it was a really amazing experience. It's primarily consumer packaged goods, primarily working with small businesses, a lot of women led businesses. And that's really where I honed a lot of my communication skills where I loved really working with small businesses and startups, especially startups that were led by women or black women. So that's what I've been doing for the last 13 years. And just as my career has, has grown, I worked agency, you know, kind of work like big global agency kind of work medium sized agency, and then really kind of stuck struck out on my own about seven years ago. And so I've been a strategist and a consultant for that. So I had a really, I was very fortunate during the pandemic, you know, with everything going on with Black Lives Matter of supporting a lot of Black-owned businesses with black women, led Bendis is businesses and initiatives. And that was a really, truly amazing experience. At the same time, during the pandemic, about two years ago, my husband, he is a CTO, he was a CTO of a global cryptocurrency trading firm. And during the pandemic, you know, I'd hear some of that terminology at home, but even having a partner, it was still very foreign to me. And I said, you know, what, I think I'm gonna get into this and I and I want to try and get into it. And that's really kind of how I piqued my it piqued my interest. He was able to, I was able to bounce questions off of him ask questions and things. And then my friends, and I actually kind of created our own crypto learning group where we all were asking each other questions and, you know, just really creating that community where we couldn't find one because obviously, in a pandemic, every new you're not really meeting new people. At the same time, separately, my daughter had a bone marrow transplant in April of 2021. And it was successful. And at the time, I was pregnant with our third child. And so I was very sick. So I really didn't go anywhere. But my husband would take Callie to her, her daily clinics. And our daughter's main nurse Cindy kind of overheard his conversations. And she was like, you know, what, how do you what do you do? What did you get into crypto? And Cindy and Lord really forged, you know, this kind of working relationship of where she was able to ask him questions similar, like what me and my friends did sort of ask those questions helped build the confidence. And then when she was finally able to make her first purchase, she had trouble getting on the platform. So her married name did not match necessarily her maiden name that was on her ID, which may have not matched her hyphenated name that was on her bank, right? So she had some challenges getting onto some exchanges. After that, when she was finally able to get on the actual exchanges on the technology. It wasn't intuitive to her she saw a plus button. And she asked for, like, how would I even know that the plus button means to purchase, right. And then the last thing was, is that she really wanted to purchase crypto for her son, you know, she had she's been going into this, she's really into it. And she wanted to purchase crypto for her son for graduation. And at the time, there was no way to actually transfer the crypto, or the coin that she had purchased to his account without getting him, you know, a wallet or giving him a key. And you know, she didn't want to give him that much control over it. From my experience with my friends. And this sort of experience that Lord had built up with Cindy, we realized that there were some common patterns, unique challenges that were to women. And when you know, we said, you know, okay, I get it this buy and selling I said, but like, what else can we do with this? You know, we've got three kids, can we start a 529 education plan for them, you know, funded by, you know, Doge or can we take out a Roth IRA that's funded by Bitcoin? And then he was like, you know, honestly, I don't know how we do that. And we looked, and we couldn't find it. And so we said, well, if we can't find it, let's build it ourselves. And that's really what the inspiration for the crypto Mama is and that was, we came up About a year ago, and now we're here where we're, you know, accepting people on our waitlist. And, you know, we're having a goal of launching our private beta by the end of the year. So it's been a very busy, exciting time we had our third child in November of last year. So not that we didn't have enough going on to then create, you know, try and build an app. And

Lisa Carmen Wang 15:21

so so it seems like you almost fell into crypto just out of curiosity, right? It wasn't an intentional, I'm gonna learn crypto, I'm gonna build an app around crypto, it was more of an experiential observational period where you are seeing the potential of the technology of this new kind of currency. So before we dive into, you know, specifics of your company, I'd love for us to zoom out a bit. And just really, for those listeners, who are still very new to cryptocurrency, maybe don't even know what the term web three is, at this point. What was it for you that really made you interested in learning more about crypto like Bitcoin? Was it just because there was like, a lot of hype around it? And you're like, This is really confusing, or like, you know, why? Why do you think that you ended up becoming passionate about it?

Kendra Cole 16:23

Yeah, I think I will say to that point, you know, I, I had heard a lot about it. Right? So I think I'd seen it on my, you know, social media timelines. And so, and again, hearing it at home, there was that sort of connection. But still, it was still very foreign to me. And I was like, what is the hype? All about? You know, what, why is this something that, you know, I need to get involved in, I've always kind of been, you know, a student of life and always wanting to remain curious. So, you know, for me, I said, Okay, well, I want to figure out what's going on with this. So that really was what led me to do a lot of research, find other try to find other communities of women from like an education standpoint of connecting with other women who had similar interests that I did, right. And I think that when I did that, initially, it really kind of led me to just, you know, reading more news articles, you read more studies, and this challenge of, you know, not having sort of foundational knowledge about investing or finances, that wasn't unique to me, studies show that actually, most women have never had anyone sit them down and talk to them one on one about investing or finances. And that's, that's a problem. Women actually hold majority of the financial and investing decisions for the family. And yet, no one is actually talking to us having these conversations early and often. Right. So there's a disconnect that's there. I think that we also when we look at being a working mom, for me, you know, my career has been something that has been really important to me. But even still, we obviously know about the wage gap, right? We know about the fact that, you know, women make less than men and specifically, even black women make even less more even less than that, right? So even that that was a challenge that I've constantly had to deal with, you know, in my career. And so I think that all of those things, they have been sort of tertiary, and surrounding to my life, they're very, you know, they've always been kind of interwoven in my life. And when I had my children, and specifically my two daughters, I wanted something different for them. I wanted them to have a different relationship with money, I wanted them to have a different relationship with finances with investing. And I knew that when I talked to my other month, my friends who are in similar places their life, they had that same sort of passion and knowledge. And so that's kind of what led me really to even getting into crypto. You know, of course, like I think, you know, 234 years ago, you heard a lot of these stories of, you know, somebody purchased Bitcoin when it was only worth 1000. And then it you know, peaked, right. So, that may be that may be a one off scenario. But I do think that given that Bitcoin has, you know, was established more than 10 years ago, and we're seeing so much more activity in this industry, that this industry is here to stay. And so we don't want women to be left behind. I don't want women to be left behind. I don't want my daughters not knowing what's going on, right. So I wanted to that's really kind of what it also inspired me to create a space that was specifically for women, where it was inclusive, it was welcoming. She could ask questions she could learn at her own pace, but also the next extension of that is really putting her money to work for her because there are very few products out there that are catering to the preferences that women have from technology to investing preferences. To the things that are most important to her, whether it's her career or family, you know, things like that. So I think that women are women are underserved in the financial services industry. And it's time to stop that.

Lisa Carmen Wang 20:13

So how exactly does crypto mom really take into consideration the nuances of how a woman invests how a woman thinks about money? And how are you creating that inclusive space to make sure there are more women in crypto in the long run?

Kendra Cole 20:32

Yeah, thank you for asking that. So the first thing I think is, is that when we look at even specifically, just having a product that is saying, we are taking a long term committed approach to the success of women in crypto, even just having a product that states that women are not just a marketing campaign, and I think that if there were if it was that simple, then other products, other exchanges would do that, and it would and then we wouldn't have the crypto gender gap, right, we wouldn't have the wage gap, it would be gone. So it's not just that simple, right? So there's that. Also, additionally, when we look at the investment profile of women, women actually have a buy and hold strategy. So women are much better investors than men, because men tend to have a trading strategy. So they make quick decisions that are uninformed. Women are not that. So that's not how women prefer to invest. So on our platform, instead of having that trading experience that you would see on other exchanges, we created products that support her buy and hold strategy. So for example, she can go on our platform and purchase Bitcoin, she can then allocate that Bitcoin to tax and non tax advantaged accounts. So like a 529 education plan, further iterations will have like something like an IRA, right? So you can have reoccurring investments. And that's actually how women specifically tend to want to invest, they take their at once they have all of their their bills paid, you know, the kids schools, things are taking care of whatever the excess money is, that's what they want to invest. And so we know that that's how women tend to like to invest. I think the other thing is, is that on our platform, when we look at the technology, use preferences, even apps that say that they are gender neutral, are geared more towards men and how they use technology. So everything from you know, on our mobile device, your your thumb reach, is tends to be a little bit shorter for women. So we took those things into consideration, we also took into consideration making sure that she her eyes don't get fatigued with the colorations. So I think the the biggest thing is, is that we were really thoughtful when we put together this platform. And we really took into consideration how, what the lives of millennial women are, whether she is a working woman, whether she's a stay at home mom, or she's a working mom, like I am, we took those things into consideration. And we said, these women matter. Nobody is vying for vying for her dollars, like these are dollars that were vying for dollars that are potentially not even invested anywhere. That's not right. And women deserve to be spoken to, in a way that is that they want to be spoken to, to the things that are important to her. And that's really what we're trying to accomplish here.

Lisa Carmen Wang 23:31

Amazing. So would you say that you are like creating an app that would be almost a competitor to some other like generic apps? Like, for example, is someone is a woman going to be using crypto mom instead of Coinbase? You know, what's your hope here?

Kendra Cole 23:51

Yeah, I think that, you know, when I see crypto mom and you know, five to 10 years or something, you know, I would love to have crypto mom be the only solution for her. And I would love to have the platform be, you know, an all in one place for her for her investments. So she may be can be able to see all of her investments, whether they're traditional investments or crypto. I think right now, one of the things that we know about our users is that a lot of our users are going to be first time purchasers. And so they may be a little bit hesitant to get in get involved and put their money on the platform, which is why we started with Bitcoin. So we know you know, Bitcoin has been around for more than 10 years. So we it's a little bit more established when it comes to the different projects. So we wanted to provide her something that was a baseline for her that she can get involved in. As we add more coins onto the product onto our platform. The other thing that we want to have is a robo advisor that takes gender based considerations into market. So again, thinking about how women's salaries are different than men. Whether or not she takes a career break, whether it's maternity leave or taking care of her parents. Follow those things will kind of factor into the advice that she's given from a robo advisor. So when she goes on, you know, she has someone or something there that she can ask questions to just like I had with, you know, with Lord or Cindy was able to have with Florida as well. So we wanted to make sure that we're walking with her throughout her entire experience as a part of her entire, you know, crypto learning experience.

Lisa Carmen Wang 25:27

Do you see this as an app for only moms or also younger women as well? Or starting their financial journeys?

Kendra Cole 25:36

Yeah, I think you know, it's definitely for women, all women, really, to be honest, when we kind of created this, we came up with this with millennial women in mind, so about 27, to about 45 years old, mostly, because when we look at a buy and hold strategy, again, it's, a lot of times women take their, their whatever their money is, that's leftover after they have, you know, paid off their bills or, you know, taken care of the things that their responsibilities. So a lot of times when you look at the profile of a woman, she tends to have a when you know, she's a little bit older, she tends to have a little bit more expendable cash. But that said, again, we it's most important that we women feel heard and women feel seen. So it's absolutely open to any woman as well.

Lisa Carmen Wang 26:27

Awesome. So when you think about launching this, so it seems like you're going to be launching it in a couple of months, what are some of the biggest challenges that you are encountering or that you foresee that you'll need to overcome?

Kendra Cole 26:43

I think that when we look at our potential users, we know that we know women might be a little bit hesitant to, you know, put money on the platform. And that's totally understandable, you know, this is a new investment for her. And so we know that women may be a little bit slower to come onto the platform. And that's fine for us. Part of the way that we want to make women help women build women's confidence is on our social media platforms, we do a lot of education. So we do some simple things is like a crypto word of the day where we take a definition, and we just break it down to something that is relatable. So we know that you know, I think probably adoption might be a little bit slower than you know, what you may see as like in another exchange. I think the other challenges is that there's going to be a lot of haters out there. And there's gonna be people who say, well, like, Why can't she just use coin base? Like why do women need a product that's just for her? And I think that, you know, we're going to be constantly having to take up that space again, and, and stand our ground and say, No, women actually do deserve to have a place that that she can go to find other women who are on, you know, their crypto wealth, building journeys, where she can find products that, you know, matter to her and support her life and her priorities. And so I think that those are going to be our biggest challenges

Lisa Carmen Wang 28:15

to that last part, I think it's really important actually, to state that, in fact, the world is created default for a man everything from our physical space to our healthcare systems to our financial systems. And so it's the same thing when someone says like, does a woman need her own health care or specified health care? It's like, Yes, she does. Does she need her own type of financial care? And it's like, Yes, she does. And yes, it does. Yeah, it's like, if the world is default created for a certain type of person, then right now we are starting to come out and say, well, the default doesn't apply to everyone.

Kendra Cole 28:54

It doesn't. And it's also interesting, where it's like, well, if the default already has six or seven different platforms, like it's like, why are we not asking them? Why do we need another exchange out here? Right? Like, why can't you just use crypto mob? Or? Or even if there is another product that comes out that's specifically for women? Why do women only need one? Like we can have multiple products? Right? Like, why is it that we only get one or we get none? Or nobody's asking them? Well, you know, does another young white bro need another exchange? Nobody asked for that.

Lisa Carmen Wang 29:30

Yeah, well, we're asking those questions now. So what advice would you give your younger self now?

Kendra Cole 29:39

Trust your gut, you know, stand your ground, trust your gut, because it won't always be so hard. You won't always feel alone. You won't always feel like the only one. And you won't always feel like you're standing out like a sore thumb. You know, stand take up your space. You deserve to take up that space. to stay true to yourself, and eventually, you know, you will find your community and you'll find your people.

Lisa Carmen Wang 30:07

I love that. And I think it just, it's a continual pattern that I hear from women. I mean, even for myself, it's like, Trust yourself, trust your gut, trust your voice, trust your value, trust your worth, basically, stop questioning if you're doing the right thing. And I think this goes back to that idea of the default world telling us that we are wrong for existing in a certain way, in every single way. And so it's become this programming really, this the good girl brainwashing that it's like, we question ourselves every single step of the way. And it's almost like we have to proactively say, I just need to believe that I'm right. Because I guarantee you there is no, very few. But I say mediocre white men walked through the world being like, I wonder if I've done enough research to, you know, really validate if this is a need in the world? Yeah,

Kendra Cole 31:05

absolutely. They're never going around and saying, Hmm, like, I have a question. But I'm just going to wait until the end and see if anybody else has any questions before I asked my question. You know, like, men just don't they don't operate that way. And we need to not operate that way either.

Lisa Carmen Wang 31:22

Yeah, it's like, Dude, I think this would be a great idea. Yeah, let's get money for it. Sweet. All right, let's do it. And then it's just like the conversations over and I have to remind myself and this is early on when I was really like, coming out of my good girl shell into my bad bitch self. I was like, Okay, walk into the room with the confidence of a mediocre white man. And not from an overachiever. You know, like, I've done everything as perfectly as I can my entire life. And, yeah, just like letting go of I think for a lot of women who are ambitious, who have big goals are sometimes like, I see a lot of perfectionism because and I know that because I've been a perfectionist, overachiever my whole life and realizing there's a point at which that doesn't serve you anymore. Like you just have to go out and do it and trust that things are going to work out if you have the right intention. And the right mission and the right passion that's driving you forward.

Kendra Cole 32:21

Totally 100% agree. You know, and women we do we feel like we have to be this perfectionist, we feel like we have to have all of the answers. We feel like we have to, and sometimes it's like, you know what? No, you don't. You're curious. You're smart. You're awesome, just the way that you are. And that's good enough.

Lisa Carmen Wang 32:39

Exactly. So, Kendra, last question for you. What does it mean to you to be a bad bitch

Kendra Cole 32:45

being a bad bitch means that you know, you're not afraid to stand in your true authentic self. I think being a bad bitches. You know, owning it, whatever that is, own it. And do you and I think even when you are afraid, pushing through and making a way out of no way,

Lisa Carmen Wang 33:06

love it. Well, thank you so much for making the way in the way that you see it and we're so excited for what you're building and can't wait to continue following your progress.

Kendra Cole 33:17

Thank you so much for having me.

Lisa Carmen Wang 33:21

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