ep. 22 - break the boys’ club & invest like a woman

Did you know women are better long-term investors?

In this episode, Lisa Carmen Wang and Clara Vydyanath discuss why women do not have to be intimidated when it comes to investing. They break down investing jargon and talk about how women can build confidence in their investing skills. Plus they discuss alternative assets like venture capital funds, hedge funds, and private equity and how women can leverage community to start their investing journeys.

You'll hear:

• How women can leverage their strengths to become great investors

• Why female founders get less investment dollars overall, and how we can get more

• Why traditional investment products weren't made for women, and what needs to change

• How more women can start investing in alternative asset classes

• How Lisa and Clara are changing the game and supporting more female investors and entrepreneurs

FULL TRANSCRIPT

Lisa Carmen Wang 0:04

All right, welcome bad bitches to the BAD BITCH EMPIRE. Today I'm here with Clara Vydyanath. She is the founder and CEO of 32 Cents an alternative assets investing club built by women for women. She is a two-time CEO who has spent over 17 years in finance and fintech. She began her career at JP Morgan, and then Credit Suisse where she worked on tech IPOs, such as Shopify, she has helped companies scale from pre-product all the way to IPO. So she has had her fair share of finance, fundraising, and startup experience. And Clara is a CFA charterholders, and a CPA, and much, much more, and certainly a bad bitch investor herself. Clara, welcome to the BAD BITCH EMPIRE.

Clara Vydyanath 0:51

Thank you so much, Lisa. It's, it's amazing to be here.

Lisa Carmen Wang 0:55

So let's get started. And I always love to start here, which is, I want to know about your background, and especially how good girl brainwashing affected you how you broke out of that to ultimately become the bad bitch that you are today?

Clara Vydyanath 1:12

I love that question when I first heard it, and I grew up as a child of immigrants and ultimately, myself coming to a new country. And so my family is largely just people who have held jobs for 25 years, and they retired with the same company. And frankly, what I was told when I was younger, was go to university, get a good job, save money, buy apps, right? This was the were the spectrum of things that I was basically given. That was a possibility to be done. And I think that definitely had an impact. Because for the longest time, even while working, and banking, while working at startups, I remain severely under-invested. And so to me going to be branching out and finding that that that financial tribe and finding those different opportunities and portfolios, never entered, my social circles never entered my mind, I was transacting these years on one hand, and seeing if my male colleagues, you know, have 10 feet over here. And when he came over there and boarded you over here, but never thought it would be something that I could do, because that was never explained to me. And that was never in my circle. I think a lot of us are in that position. And part of why I'm working on this problem is because I think we all can, are capable of being software powerful.

Lisa Carmen Wang 2:36

And so what was your relationship like to money starting from a young age? Like how did you really think about money, especially coming from an immigrant background?

Clara Vydyanath 2:49

Oh, it was a complete scarcity mindset, save everything that you can spend very little build up your savings account, max out your 401 K, save money for a down payment, buy a house, that was it, and then you just earned and you saved, right? Investing never entered the conversation. So the relationship with money, and that's I think, true for a lot of women is we invest differently from men. And I think it's part of our conditioning, it's a part of our socialization, I think we tend to approach things from a, I'm going to be cautious, try a little bit, dip my toes, then as opposed to going all in. But that's okay, we're going to design better financial products to fit that. But that said, it is a mindset thing where I, again, I spent 17 years in finance, right, I should have a more broad view of these things. But I think as a woman, especially it kind of comes in and you and the way I grew up, it was just, let's just save and be cautious and conservative and protect, protect, protect, as opposed to build, build, build.

Lisa Carmen Wang 3:55

And so when was the first time you really started to become aware that it was important to invest was it when you started working in finance, or before that?

Clara Vydyanath 4:05

I was working in finance for years never occurred to me. When I sold a startup to Walmart at some point, I was part of that transaction. And that transaction, basically, I was looking through the cap tables of all the angels who are invested, who are all getting paid out now a pretty good amount of money. That's what I said, I know some of these guys. Like I know them under the cap table, and they're making these 10s of 1000s or hundreds of 1000s of dollars. How do I how do I do that? How do I get into that? That was my first light bulb moment. And I said, I want to be an angel investor. How do I get into that world? And then you find that it's difficult to break into that world even because you're not talking socially about money to the same extent you're not in those circles. But that was my lightbulb moment. But I saw these people getting wealthy. And I'm like, I want to do that.

Lisa Carmen Wang 5:05

So how old were you when that light bulb moment happened?

Clara Vydyanath 5:09

Oh, in my early 30s, frankly, late, much, much, much later on. And that's why I love your mission, Lisa to get women involved when they're much younger, because we can do better, we can do better than I did.

Lisa Carmen Wang 5:24

Yeah, well, there's just so many stats that show women are better investors, especially long-term investors, because even though we might not be as impulsive, as often men are when they're making investments or just impulsive traders when we do our research. And when we commit to a decision, and we actually make that decision to invest, we have more conviction, and we hold it. And so it shows that when you trade less impulsively over time, you're actually more likely to be a successful investor and outperform.

Clara Vydyanath 5:56

That is absolutely true. And what's more, the data is coming out now on across a variety of investment managers, right? Traders, female traders, respect stop losses more they trade. At your point, they trade much more intentionally. Women, hedge fund managers outperform their benchmarks. CEO, when companies are led by female CEOs, they outperform the stock market, mutual funds led by women outperform this coming across in a variety of spaces, but women generate just better returns. So it's actually a great investment decision to invest in women, not just a mission-driven thing.

Lisa Carmen Wang 6:39

Exactly. And so we are at this point where the data is there, women outperform we return we're better investments, right? The average female founder, even though she gets significantly less capital to start with, over time, she actually has a better ROI. And so there's this disconnect, right? We've got the data. And yet, they're still this call it just perspective, or this label that it's it has to be impact like investing in women is a diversity initiative. It's an impact initiative. What do you think we can do to actually shift that narrative?

Clara Vydyanath 7:23

I think one of the most powerful ways to shift that narrative is to get more capital in the hands of women. That's the genesis of 30 seconds, right? Because here's the thing, No one wakes up, in my opinion in the morning and says “today, I will be biased”, right? But that's not a thing that we do. But it's pattern matching, as investors, people come in and say, I need to make a decision on a very risky asset with relevant information. And so what do I do, I look for patterns as he looked like me, does he talk like me, did he go to the same school as me, was in the same fraternity as me. And that leads to more trust, even though it really shouldn't. But it does. And it's natural, and it's human. So for me, right, the way to fix the systemically is to make women wealthier, get them more assets, and get them more power to invest in other women in their pattern matching. And so that way, we can really start to spread our wealth and tell more of our stories, by giving us more financial power.

Lisa Carmen Wang 8:25

And I also think that I mean, that's such a good point about the pattern matching what you said about especially as investors, we have to make investment decisions based on very little information, especially when it comes to Angel investing, you're like you see the founder in front of you. And you have to, oftentimes their pre-product, and you have to make a decision of whether or not 10 years from now, five years from now, this is something that's actually going to return your money. And so what we often see is the confidence of a mediocre white man who says, you know, this is the company that's going to go public, it's gonna be a billion-dollar startup. And you're like, Yeah, but you don't, you have no track record, and you have no product and you have no team, but his confidence level is through the roof. And that is the man that ends up getting investment, whether it's the founder, or the fund manager, who has no experience but has buddies in the fraternity. And so I think that this is a big part of what women also need to work on is and that's why at Babbage empire, our tagline is unapologetic worth and wealth. Because in addition to thinking about wealth, it's like I always say that the wealth will come when the worth is there. Like we need to be able to walk into those rooms, and have the trust in ourselves, that we are great builders, that we are great fund managers that we are great investors. And convinced like we we look at that data and say, yeah, that data is applicable to me. I'm actually an exceptional investor if I just apply myself to it.

Clara Vydyanath 9:54

Absolutely. That's a great, great point. And again, things that I resonate with really strongly The right because I think we're not socialized to think that way to your point when you asked me the earlier question, how does good girl brainwashing affect you? Good girls are humble, the girls don't boast good girls don't talk about what their accomplishments are. And so it took me a while as now as an executive, and now as a founder, to be able to walk into a room and say, I know exactly how to build this company. I have 17 years of background, right? And so, but to be able to deliver that message with a confident view took me a long time. And let's want to harken back to that question around, you know, even with, I think all of us suffer from that, and it's something that we need to systematically sort of fun, unwind.

Lisa Carmen Wang 10:45

Yeah, break free up, I saw this hilarious quote on Instagram. And it said, the feminine urge to say, I think, when in actuality, I know for a fact. And so I noticed myself doing this to where I often say, I think this, when you see the language of men, which is this, this is how it works. This is what's going to happen. This is how they're going to act when. And as women I think language is so important when it comes to fundraising when it comes to making decisive decisions that investors, which is this, this decisiveness that comes with the energy you bring to the table, the language that you speak, it's like, I think this will be a good, good investment. I think that you should invest in me, I think, I think I think and that language is always inward-focused. And I think part of this practice of building up worth is just stating, stating your track record, unapologetically, like even when I looked at your track record, and I think a lot of times when people I just said, I think again, call me out on it. But yeah, when when we look at track records of bad bitches like you and I, it's like, obviously, we're great fund managers. And it's about owning that, right? And really encouraging and empowering other women around us who are also incredible to see that in themselves and in the mirror.

Clara Vydyanath 12:13

That's the power I think, of communities. I think having good communities around you to like bad bitch empire, like, I hope through two cents, as we get bigger, I really want us to find our financial tribe, and stick to that and sort of start to see this. See this growth in knowledge, see this growth in our own confidence as we gain that knowledge, and learn how to discuss and debate and talk through complicated financial things? Because here's the thing, we're all really smart. I mean, but this is just just a new language. How many let new languages have you learned so many? Right? When you find in your craft, when you go to a new place, you learn a new language. And so being a founder raising money, but I think it's fun, it's just learning the new language. And we can 100% do that.

Lisa Carmen Wang 13:06

Yeah, one thing I actually spoke to an advisor about today, when I was talking through the BAD BITCH EMPIRE Fund and our investing strategy, and you know, where we're starting our next close soon. And it was the conversation around confidence as a fund manager and confidence as an investor. And one of the things that I was telling him was a big part of this was just convincing myself internally, that I could trust myself. Because as we know, investing is a game where you could lose all your money. And, a lot of times, it is a risk, but the one, like when you it's it's often even a numbers game. It's about access community, and how many that you invest in, like, if you invest in one thing, and you expect that to turn out 100% You're like, that's, that's just bad numbers. But ultimately, it was, Do I trust myself in every other aspect of my life, because I looked at my track record. And I said every time I have a goal in mind, and I commit myself wholeheartedly to that goal, I fucking hit that goal. So why would I not trust myself to make great investments when I built this incredible network when I built this brand? And so I think that that sort of exercise to ask yourself, especially as a woman, if you do have a tendency to doubt yourself and say, Well, let me look at all the other aspects of my life where I've been successful. And I've trusted myself. What is the reason to not trust myself when it comes to this new endeavor of learning this new language of finance and investing?

Clara Vydyanath 14:45

Absolutely. And it's funny, I resonate so much with that because like I said, I've been an executive for a long time and that's a word I know really well. I know how to run a company, right that I can do it in my sleep. But being a founder, I had to learn a brand new line I'm about to short, my fundraise now as well. And just going through that, and even in my mind, this is this angst around. Oh, but will anyone give me money? Of course, they'll take a look at my track record, again, look at what I've done and built on the goodbye background. But there's still this voice that says, you know, actually, what if no one, but yeah, but you got to overcome that. And I think it's just learning that you're right, trusting yourself in every other aspect of your life. And why would you not succeed here?

Lisa Carmen Wang 15:32

Yeah, yeah. So that let's let's then dive into this overarching issue. You know, we've talked about the psychology. But Why are women still sitting on the sidelines when it comes to investing? You touched upon this briefly in the beginning how I think more and more women are putting their money into 401, K's high yield savings accounts doing the typical, even investing in some real estate. But what is it from your research that you've seen? Why do women sit out on investments?

Clara Vydyanath 16:08

I think it's twofold. Either actually think, psychologically, the products that we have out there right now are not designed for us. They're not designed to address the differences in the way in which we invest versus men. We are community oriented. We do seek social proof, we are cautious. We do approach this from a more risk attitude mindset. But guess what? That's okay. Like we need to build products for that. Because it's like, we're just being asked to wear men's suits. Why can't we build a suit for women, which is, I think a big reason why women kind of sit out is when you, when you sell a financial product these days, you're told, create a sense of urgency, make it seem complicated, MIT really be super pushy in in getting this done, make it feel super exclusive, and black tie, that all works better for men than it does for us. And so we just said that. Right. So we need to reimagine the financial ecosystem, frankly, to create products that are much more designed for women's psychology. And I think we'll be fine as participating in that.

Lisa Carmen Wang 17:23

I often think about, I mean, shopping with a group of girlfriends, or going out for dinner with a group of girlfriends and how enjoyable it is to share a bottle of wine and talk about your experiences with your girlfriends. And I think that even replicating that emotional safety within the community as it comes to investing or that sense of fun and pleasure is so important. And the financial and investing world has been the exact opposite. It feels emotionally unsafe, right? It feels emotionally or just like intellectually difficult to understand unnecessary jargon. I was listening to some crypto bros the other day, and they're talking about, you know, fur, we've now heard about apes and squiggles. And like real conversation between the crows and the pigs. And the M like, is this real conversation, but it is. And so it's, I think even finding our own way, our own discussion around jargon and like creating our own language is also really important where it feels like community. And I think that's something that both you and I have in common, which is the importance of cultivating that community bond within the investing sphere.

Clara Vydyanath 18:39

I think Sorry, I was laughing. I think fundamentally, the jargon is the enemy of participation, because we will as women will not invest in things we don't thoroughly understand, for a good reason. And so having a field full of jargon, which finance definitely is, is something that I think leads to people just not feeling engaged or not feeling like they're capable or qualified to participate and just drive on that thread of spending time with your girlfriend sharing a bottle of wine. That's such an amazing experience. But how often do you talk about money with your girlfriends? I mean, you would because you're you however, I think for a lot of us, it's like an even for me, right? If you get three men in a room, it's first the game and secondly, money. What are you making where you put it into? What are you doing? We don't talk. And so building up that social confidence around it, I think, is again a huge part of why you started Backpage empire and I started doing two sets is to find that sense of community find that sense of safety in the financial world.

Lisa Carmen Wang 19:51

Yeah, and I think this conversation and we do talk about a lot about this in the Babbage Empire which is opening up the conversation about Money releasing that shame around money. And I think that there's this really detrimental idea which is ask for advice instead of money. Because if you ask for advice, you get money. If you ask for money, you get advice. And so we're then encouraged to ask for advice. But I actually think women should ask for money. Because if you asked for advice, you're just only going to get advice. And you're going to be stuck in advice zone, and mentorship, and you're like, actually, deep down, I did really want the money.

Clara Vydyanath 20:26

I could not agree more. And I think, I think the powerful combination, frankly, is advice and money, which is kind of why I think you know, what you're doing with the fund is so powerful. And what I'm doing with my community is so powerful, because we're both uniting a fund around the community. Because in the community, we build that safe space, we build that way to really talk about money, take away the shame, and talk about and learn and level up. But there's a so watch, right? It's like, great. So we learned about hedge funds, what do we do with that information? Well, we can invest in them. That's, that's the so watch, which is kind of why I think the two should really be hardwired together to really raise participation rates for movement.

Lisa Carmen Wang 21:13

Absolutely. So you take the talk you put into action, you take the education, you put your skills into action. And so let's dive in. Because we have seen an uptake in women investing in home ownership and savings. But for investments that generate real upside private market investments, aka alternative assets, we simply don't participate. So I want to dive into the specific alternative asset classes and just give a broad overview of some of the big ones so that the audience can understand. So we've got public markets, which is stock market, publicly listed, you can trade them and then we've got private assets, aka alternative assets, which are ones that don't turn up in public markets, like hedge funds, private equity, venture capital, angel investments, secondaries, real estate, collectibles, watches, art wine. So let's, let's, let's talk about those because these are the ones that are not correlated with the broader stock market. And so you have a lot of experience in these. So let's, let's start with an overview. And then tell us, you know, the how these are typically things that are given to the elite investors, right, the high high net worth, and how is it then we'll dive into once we have the overview how women can get involved?

Clara Vydyanath 22:36

Absolutely. So let's start with just generally what I would rocket assets do, right? So they are markets that are that their assets are not traded in public markets. And by that I mean their assets that you only get to by invitation. So you get invited to be an LP of a hedge fund, you get invited to participate in a venture capital fund, for example. So all these asset classes historically, were gated, basically, by invitations or requiring high amounts of capital to participate. And to buy a piece of art, you typically would need to have $5 million plus in net worth to be able to afford the piece of art that that could appreciate. What alts do for you is they are uncorrelated with the broader stock market, meaning in a well balanced portfolio, you don't want to always go up and down, up and down as the markets move up and down. You want to have assets that do steady, predictable growth as well, in addition to the upside that you get with assets that are correlated with the stock market. So if you so for example, if you take the poor folios of elite allocators like and by that I mean Harvard endowment that's growing at 30%. Right, if you take the big funds, they have 50% or more of their assets in private market assets like these hedge funds, for example, or discretionary investment funds that participate in various instruments to capitalize on just the markets moving or various events like mergers or global events. Private Equity capitalizes private companies and cuts costs and help them grow. Venture capital and angels are a bit more familiar with which are investments that are made in early stage companies that can yield really good upside if it works, but obviously quite risky as well. secondaries are buying and selling the shares of pre IPO companies like Stripe for example. And so all of these asset classes have unique characteristics, but one thing that they share in common is they are uncorrelated with the stock market in in both parts and they have the potential to add significant upside to your portfolio if allocated correctly. These What typically, like I said, gated by invitation, and so only those with ultra-high net worth got the invitation to participate in these kinds of assets. In the last five years, though, I'd say, Yeah, last five years, last 10 years, even, there's been a push to offer more of these products to retail consumers. So you'll see companies like equity, or forge or moon fare, or Vina Western masterworks which you'll see all over, you know, getting promoted, those are products that take these kinds of alternative assets and bring them down to the original consumer to be able to invest in them. Now, the pros and cons here again, are that they, the pros are, they're accessible in most part, the cons are, the minimums are still a little too high, I think to be comfortable, especially to women who want to start precisely as we discussed, but they also tend to be hot to diligence and hard to get into and hard to do research on. Like, a lot of us don't have the time as well, in between, you know, being moms and or being you know, professionals and I'm building a career having a life like we already have the time to sit and diligence, each one of these in great detail. And so when we get this jargon, Trump's flying at us, and we see all of these products out there, they're all they all look about the same, and they're all sold by white men. There's just not a drive to participate in them. I think that's implicitly gating participation as well.

Lisa Carmen Wang 26:34

Yeah. So the the parts about these alternatives, you know, as we said, they're often illiquid, like, you can't get your investment back on your timetable, you need to wait often five years, sometimes 10 years for some of those early stage venture capital angel investments, opaque, as you said, it's difficult to get the information around them or really evaluate them, because you don't have all the data the same way you have with a stock or a publicly available data. And then this gated access, meaning you need to be accredited, you need to be in the right communities, you need to be in the boys club, traditionally. So how did you get your start in investing in these alternative assets? And can you tell us a little bit about your portfolio as it pertains to? Are you putting stuff in hedge funds? Are you investing in venture capital funds? Are you putting stuff in collectibles and other real estate projects?

Clara Vydyanath 27:31

Yeah, absolutely. How did I get my start? Well, working in finance helped, right because I was in those conversations to begin with. And then I just basically began to ask and get information and parse it through myself and took some time every day just to make sure that I understood what I was doing, and learned deeply about asset classes that I didn't know about already. But again, it was part of my day-to-day work as well. Like when I built these FinTech companies, I built Forge, and that is a second rocket plate. So I learned about secondaries. I then joined equity, which is a hedge fund, and rocket as in startups, about hedge funds. So for me, my workplace really gave me that leg up in understanding and learning all these asset classes. I am currently pretty well diversified into a lot of these, the only thing I'm not really into right now is real estate, oddly enough, because I recently sold a couple of my holdings. But otherwise, I have a pretty well-balanced portfolio in alternative assets about 40% allocation by investable net worth. And that's been, you know, performing really, really well. And that's one of those things where I said, Look, I lucked into my knowledge, right? And so for me, it's like, well, how do I bring this, with the loss of the bring this knowledge bring this body that I've accumulated to other women who don't have the advantage of being in all these rooms with me? And learning by osmosis, hence, the two sets?

Lisa Carmen Wang 29:04

Amazing. And so you just to confirm you have 40% of your wealth in alternative assets?

Clara Vydyanath 29:11

Correct? Yes. And the recommended allocation used to be around five to 10%, I actually think it should be closer to 30 to 40%. Especially if you have a net worth in excess of a quarter million. I think it's really, really helpful to have that old allocation because that's what the elite guys do. That's how they've grown consistently.

Lisa Carmen Wang 29:32

And that is 40% of your total wealth, not just 40% of your investment portfolio.

Clara Vydyanath 29:39

Um, I think of wealth as total wealth. Yes. So to me, the way you think about your wealth is my primary residence is the source of my wealth, because that's realistic, right? There's also, we always think about your wealth holistically, including, by the way, any options and stock options that you have in private companies. If you work for a startup, you get stock options. Those options are part of your wealth as well. at all, and so you should treat them. And if you have all of your position in one, then it's time to diversify. So for me, it's holistic.

Lisa Carmen Wang 30:09

And what percentage of your wealth? And do you have any in the public markets?

Clara Vydyanath 30:13

I have around 20. Now I have 25% in public markets right now, just cause I pulled back a fair amount last year. And we all Yeah, so that's, that's what I have right now. And that's a low ish percentage. But I think that actually, and most of that, by the way, is, is in my retirement accounts. So all of those are public market portfolios, that's a great way to get exposure to public markets. It's long term, it's highly tax efficient. And so maxing that out, and making sure that the public market in summary is a fantastic way to get exposure there.

Lisa Carmen Wang 30:51

Definitely. And then one area within alternative investing that BAD BITCH EMPIRE really focuses on, and I know that this is something that you also care deeply about is investing in Angel investing in female-led businesses. And so similarly, when it comes to investing in female fund managers, again, like the data is all there that female-led businesses outperform. And so I want to talk about why women are such great investments, especially female founders, and like why when you are an angel investor, it's important to make your money work for both profit and impact. Because I think that that's something that's just so inherent to the way women invest. It's like, we want to invest for the betterment of the world. It's like, I think, in this day and age, if you are, if someone's building a company, it's not making the world a better place, like why are you building the company? Right? And if you're the same thing, if you're an investor, if you're investing in a company that is not proactively making the world a better place, why are you investing it in it at all? And so let's, let's just talk about why, you know, from your perspective, you are investing in women and why that's so important to you.

Clara Vydyanath 32:05

Again, to me, right, very pragmatically, it is a better investment decision. Like, for example, I am working with percent to create a private credit note, actually, that and private credit is, is one other example of alternative assets, and that investing directly in a basket of loans, and creating a note that invests in all in a basket of loans made to female-owned companies. And for me, it's because women default on their loans less, it's a better business, right? And so investing in women startups makes sense, because they just make better investors, and they make better operators, and they're careful. And they're better stewards of capital, as we just talked about, though. So for me, it's beautifully mission-aligned, because I don't have to go out of my way to say, I'm going to invest in a new one, because its diversification, or its diversity. I do it because it's better. This gives me a better return.

Lisa Carmen Wang 33:05

Exactly. Yeah. I mean, when you just look at the macro trends of also what's happening by 2030, women are going to control two-thirds of all wealth in the US already we control 85% of consumer spending, we influence 70% of household financial decisions, as an economy, women as an economy are going to outpace some of the largest nations economies in the next five years. And so there's just such a massive shift that's happening. And then also, when it comes to innovation, I think about women-centered innovation, and just how the days of men building designing, and selling products to women are over. And so now we're moving into this space where it's we're not going to be content with men creating products for us, it's going to be about women creating products that address the needs of other women. And that's going to be the next wave of billion-dollar businesses. So I think, as an investor, especially if you are interested in investing in, you know, other women, other female founders and female-founded businesses that you can understand, because you're like, Wow, this is dresses, my pain point, it's really starting to think about how do you see the world changing in the next five to 10 years, the rise of women in power is going to fundamentally change the way we consume products. The types of services are the types of leadership that are going to be in place. And so if you genuinely believe in that, that is the type of thing that you should be investing in because the way the world is going to shift is the thing that's going to also return your money.

Clara Vydyanath 34:46

Absolutely. And it's funny. The first slide of my pitch literally says, There is a $3 trillion opportunity in alternative assets that are currently being thoroughly ignored because the people Who designed financial products in the old space are all men. Right? And so they're not designing for women. And so we're sitting out as we talked about, and so fundamentally, that that's how big the market is, that is a ton, a ton and ton of assets that are currently not being looked at, or not being deployed. And women need to build more financial products for other women, and design them thoughtfully in a way that attracts that AUM, like I would love in 20 years to be the Blackrock for women, in which, you know, you basically buy a share of 32 cents when your daughter is born. And when she's 18, she graduates high school with a million dollars, that would be amazing. Think about the number of stories we could tell if we had a boss like that.

Lisa Carmen Wang 35:51

Yeah. And I think the other thing that's really important is, is when I think about changing the narrative for women and investing, it's making the money field tangible, because one thing that I've noticed, even in myself is that I was never driven by money for the sake of money. I don't like if I saw money as a tool for impact as a tool for change. Or I could leverage this money into something else. It felt tangible to me. And I think that's often why consumer products are things that women tend to easily invest in or easily buy. Because there's the same way when we think about community, like when it's tangible. And you see those bonds, like those are the true friendship bonds that you form in community. And so even when we think about how do we turn this? How do we make investing feel tangible and have that same sort of feeling, because it only got to a point when I actually was investing and I was seeing that tangible growth in a female founders company, or I was seeing the way that hurt. Like, I knew that my money was making a difference in her company that I was like, Oh, I can, I feel like this is a tool. So how do you how are how do you think about that, in terms of like changing also this narrative around investing as something that is, is like empowering and as a tool for impacting change? Absolutely.

Clara Vydyanath 37:23

And again, you're it's so funny, you're touching on every core premise that I had when starting 32 Cents as well. So it's, so it's really interesting, because that sense of participation, that sense of being of making what you're doing tangible, I think, the traditional GPL structure in a fund where the GP makes all the decisions, basically, and it's, and it's not too broad, and it's fairly opaque, lends itself to a very high price situation. Whereas for example, iterative sense, we've made our entire process radically transparent to the women who come in, right, they get to see the investments coming in get diligence, they get to take part in the diligence thing, they get to see all the documentation, they get to tangibly take part in running the fund alongside me, for example. And so they get experience, not just in giving the money and sitting back and waiting for me to get reports, they can take part that I think the participatory element is one that most funds most traditional financial products tend to avoid, they would rather you give them your money, and sit back and do nothing. Whereas after you come to every meeting, and participate and debate and challenge me and make sure that we all make better decisions together. And that leads to so much more engagement and participation. That's a superpower, frankly. And it was it's largely viewed as a pain in the ass. But it's actually a superpower to make this work. I think participator investing is very powerful among women.

Lisa Carmen Wang 39:01

Yeah. And so how do you then make a decision when it comes to investing? If like, Do you have a voting ratio or a certain kind of tipping point for actually deciding to make an investment?

Clara Vydyanath 39:15

So for every deal that we do, we have a committee, and every member has a right to be on that committee. That committee is five to eight members, and we make a new one for every deal. So all the members have a chance to be on at least one committee every six months. And that committee makes the decisions. It's not unanimous. It's actually 90% of the vote, because it's unique. If you require unanimity people often don't feel empowered to speak up. Whereas if you have a majority than voices of dissent, feel safe, dissenting, and making the objections known without feeling like they're, oh, I'm holding back the entire club with my opinion. Again, that's a conscious psychological decision I made because women often don't want to be seen as oh I’m doing something back or being the bottleneck or blocking people. So how do you give them permission to dissent while you make sure that they don't feel like a blocker, and you end up having a much more diverse opinion set?

Lisa Carmen Wang 40:12

So you are creating essentially a fund where women can participate in decisions and investing? What about if I put in a million dollars? And then she puts in 10k? Is that equal vote?

Clara Vydyanath 40:26

Once you're on the committee? Yes. So once you're on the committee, absolutely. Because it doesn't matter if I mean, it does matter. But it doesn't matter in the sense that we all have the interest of the club in mind.

Lisa Carmen Wang 40:39

Got it? That makes sense. Yeah, I mean, for us at BAD BITCH EMPIRE and our Fund, our focus is on female-led companies that are creating exponential impact for women in the world. And so we are about to make our first investment. And we're really excited about announcing that soon, once that goes through, so excited to share with all of you as well. But the way we do it is also in a way where we bring women into part of the process. But first and foremost, we have our Bad Bitch Investo Bootcamp, which we will be launching our first cohort at the end of March. So we're really excited about that, which is really about training women first and giving that educational background and foundation to understand what exactly is angel investing? How does it fit within your portfolio? How do you think about allocating your money and the return potential based on where you are in your wealth? How do you do due diligence? How do you actually analyze a company and decide if it's good or not? We share our framework for diligence and accompany and then how do you source deals? How do you add value to founders, because that's another thing about being an investor. You know, we often think that if you have money, the founder is going to take it. And that's often not true, especially if it's a really hot deal, because oftentimes, the deals that are hot every investor wants to get into, and that's when the founder has power. And they're like, No, I'm not going to take every investor, I own, not all money is created equal. If you have a million dollars, and she has a million dollars, and he has a million dollars, they're gonna say, who's gonna bring the most value to the table? So then as an investor, we also train within the Bad Bitch Investor Bootcamp? How do you add value to a founder, you know, how do you convince them that your 25k is, is more valuable than their 25k, so that you get on that cap table. So it's also you know, it's like, just because you have money isn't enough. So that's all the stuff that we train women in terms of having that solid educational foundation to confidently invest in startups. And then there's the opportunity to participate in and invest in the Fund and actually put their money to work and then invest collectively into the companies that come into our pipeline.

Clara Vydyanath 42:52

I love that thought. And fundamentally, I love that you're educating and then there's a wallet, right? What do you do with that knowledge? Well, you can invest in this fund, and you can become an angel. And that's absolutely fantastic. And frankly, I love what you said, as well about “not all money is created equal”. One of the most powerful things I've found, while pitching through 32 Cents is to say, look, how many women do you have in your LP list? 5? 3? 1? 0? Well, I can well, in the span, I can bring you 30 Female LPS off the bat. So do you want that? And often the answer is absolutely. How can we let you in? Right. So leading into the fact that we are bringing diversity to a cap table that we're bringing them that perspective? I leaned into it, I think it's fantastic. And I've used that as a tool to get me into many capturing polls,

Lisa Carmen Wang 43:51

Frank. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think that I love this leaning into whatever you got, right? And it's like, if you want us to be your female checkbox, I will do that. So long as we get in the deal, and we get that money.

Clara Vydyanath 44:10

I'll say Yeah, exactly. Exactly. That.

Lisa Carmen Wang 44:13

Yeah. So we have a question from the audience, which is how do you decide what stage what business to invest in? What's your I'm curious, what is your due diligence checklist?

Clara Vydyanath 44:28

So for us because we're diversified across asset classes, every asset class has its own right. So legends hedge fund differently, they will then you diligence, a PE fund, that Daniel diligence, a VC fund. So what we do in our product is, every month we introduced the deal for the month. We basically have a checklist for that asset class specifically in a hedge fund. We look at on correlation strategy with a track record of T management, Sharpe ratio. So we have our own checklist of what that is For each asset class, and then the committee digs into those details, and they make a decision on that basis. So for us, you know, I think this is a little bit more your wheelhouse question because we in because we decide to invest in businesses that are that, that give us that broad base portfolio of diversified vaults. So it's specifically women oriented where we can find them. But in general, it's like, how do we empower women to make those kinds of choices? And billions, those kinds of assets? themselves?

Lisa Carmen Wang 45:31

Yep. Yep. So what is your checklist when you're investing in startups?

Clara Vydyanath 45:40

investing in startups? It's funny, it's, it's, I don't want to steal from you. But it's pretty similar, like, you know, are is it? Is there at least one woman on the founding team, right? Are there is it lead? Isn't an idea that benefits the world in a certain way? Can we create exponential change? I think for me, it's also, you know, is this a founder, who, by can back even if the idea fails, but most ideas fail, is as a founder that I can back to do other things in the space in a similar space. So it's not like back in the space, the problem and the founder, the specific idea implementation and the business model I care a little bit less about, because that can change that talked about all the time, but who backs the right founder? You really got a good business?

Lisa Carmen Wang 46:28

Yep, definitely. And how does that contrast or compare to, let's say if you're analyzing a private equity fund,

Clara Vydyanath 46:35

or a private equity fund, I would take a look at variables like their track record the sector that they invest in their particular strategy, or the LBO or the growth stage. And I'm sorry, LBO means leveraged buyouts, it means that you take a bunch of debt out on a business, and then you cut costs and sell it off later at a higher multiple. So it's just a financial reengineering is what that's called. And that's a whole class of funds. So I will look at the strategy and see does otology compare well with the current economic climate. Because I will, LBO funds will do less well, but interest rates are high like they are right now. We'll take a look at the strategy. Take a look at management teams’ pedigree as well, where they come from, what their backgrounds are, and how well they've done. Unfortunately, I would love to have a diversity lens in private equity. But that is literally impossible. There are vanishingly few funds. And so we do what we can. But in that particular space, it's honestly, are you at least investing in businesses that are doing good for the world? Yeah, and obviously, technical metrics, like historical returns, you know, projected backtests, etc, etc.

Lisa Carmen Wang 47:48

Yeah. Is that Is it just as hard in hedge funds?

Clara Vydyanath 47:52

It's pretty damn hard and hedge funds. I think the space that we actually have the most leeway to do impact investing work is in private credit. And early-stage venture capital and angel investing, that's when you do actually get some diversity, or otherwise, it's really, really hard. Although the one thing I will say is, I will mention is Hypatia capital is building an index of women-run hedge funds, which are outperforming broader indexes. And so I am looking to work with them actually, to make that investable and see if we can invest in it because that would be a soup product.

Lisa Carmen Wang 48:31

That's amazing. Okay, well, how do people find out more about 32 cents?

Clara Vydyanath 48:38

You can visit my website 32 cents.com or send me an email at Clara at 32 cents.com and I would love to hear from you. And you know, I'll tell you more about what we do, how to join, etc, etc. Let's let's close the gap together is what I would say.

Lisa Carmen Wang 48:55

Awesome. And last question for you. What does it mean to you to be a bad bitch?

Clara Vydyanath 49:03

When I first came across your three slogans, of bodies, boundaries, and bank accounts, I was so taken by that because that is what it means. It means taking charge of your body and making sure that you are doing what you want to be doing with your life of your boundaries and of your bank account because that is something that holds us back so much like 32 Cents is a gender wealth gap, we have a 1/3 of the wealth men have. And so for me taking time out of your bank account means bringing that number up and getting to parity within our lifetimes. If we're lucky. That would be phenomenal. If you're going to ever get help make that happen.

Lisa Carmen Wang 49:46

Yes, amazing. Well, thank you so much, Clara. This was awesome. And I wish you the best of luck and am excited about continuing to collaborate with 32 Cents and the BAD BITCH EMPIRE and closing the gap uplifting women and cultivating the next generation of Bad Bitch investors.

Clara Vydyanath 50:06

Thank you so much Lisa. That was phenomenal.